Arc Forumnew | comments | leaders | submit | rntz's commentslogin
3 points by rntz 2208 days ago | link | parent | on: Simple quicksort in arc

Both Haskell & Arc quicksort are functional (they don't mutate their input), which means they can't have quicksort's usual O(1) additional space overhead. Their time complexity is the same, though.

In-place quicksort is most easily done with an array-like datastructure, so vectors for Arc (if they're mutable, which I think they are). It's probably possible to do it by mutating conses as well, but it would be tricky.

-----

2 points by rntz 2230 days ago | link | parent | on: Analysis vs Algebra predicts eating corn?

Corn in spirals.

Emacs.

I think OO is overblown but contains several useful concepts. I like functional programming, type theory, lisp (duh), macros, monads, etc.

I like type theory, abstract algebra, set theory, logic, category theory. I mildly dislike continuous math, especially standard analysis. Nonstandard analysis is interesting --- because it takes an algebraic approach (axiomatise infinitesimals!) to a problem that usually uses limits.

-----

1 point by rntz 2529 days ago | link | parent | on: A perl-esque new mutation primitive: shift

This is not a good primitive. It can be built using assign, and having this instead of assign be primitive complicates the arc compiler, instead of merely introducing another macro.

-----

2 points by Pauan 2529 days ago | link

If you look at the wart source (linked in the thread), you will see that it is actually a macro. I'm not sure why akkartik called it a primitive.

-----

1 point by akkartik 2529 days ago | link

Yeah I misspoke.

-----


From most to least necessary:

  - A maintained, portable, stable, widely-available implementation.
    - I'm iffy on whether Racket is widely-available enough for a Racket-based implementation to satisfy me.
  - A module system.
  - A package-distribution system.
  - Better and more libraries, or a good, standard way to hook into racket's libraries.
  - Depending on the project, a reasonably fast implementation.

-----

1 point by aw 2641 days ago | link

When you say "widely available", do you mean available on a lot of platforms?

-----

1 point by rntz 2640 days ago | link

Yes.

On looking into the matter, it seems Racket is available on Windows and OS X, so that's basically taken care of. Hopefully its source compiles on non-x86{,_64} platforms as well, but I don't really develop for those.

-----

1 point by waterhouse 2640 days ago | link

I'd suggest just trying to compile it on whatever machine you might have in mind.

  git clone http://git.racket-lang.org/plt.git
  cd plt/src
  ./configure
  make
  make install  # this builds executables and docs in place; takes a longish while

-----

3 points by rntz 2685 days ago | link | parent | on: Ask Arc Forum: arc - racket converter

Turning arc into racket is exactly how the arc compiler works internally. See the ac function in ac.scm, which takes an arc expression and turns it into a racket expression, and acompile, which takes an arc file and turns it into a racket file.

There are nonetheless a few issues with using arc code in racket, such as the arc runtime, interaction with racket's require system, and the fact that arc alters the reader to allow for square-bracket anonymous fn syntax. I haven't worked with arc in a while, so I don't remember them in full. Hopefully someone else will chime in with details. But basically, yes, with a little work, you can use arc code from racket.

-----


I can't say I'm surprised that breaking the abstraction of cons cells that way ended up being a problem. This new implementation, if anything, breaks the abstraction even more (exploiting the fact that viewing a cons cell as a vector happens to result in mutating certain parts of the "vector" having the desired effect on the cons). Arc (anarki at least) really should switch over to using racket's mutable pairs.

Actually, speaking of that, why not just use unsafe-set-mcar! and unsafe-set-mcdr!? I find it far more likely that the representation of mutable pairs will continue to coincide with that of pairs than that the representation of vectors will, and a quick examination at the mzscheme prompt seems to confirm my suspicion. unsafe-set-mcar! and unsafe-set-mcdr! work just fine on cons cells. I'm using plt scheme 4.2.2, not racket, though.

-----

4 points by waterhouse 2786 days ago | link

Egad, you are thoroughly right and I have rewritten the post. mentally smacks myself on the head Thank you, that is a much better implementation. I'm a little bit disappointed that it's so easy...

Uh-oh, the edit window has timed out on my post, and I've noticed that my version doesn't do any type-checking. That is el baddo. So far, it hasn't caused things to crash yet...

  arc> (= x 'meh)
  meh
  arc> (= (car x) 2)
  2
  arc> x
  meh
...but that's just luck and I wouldn't rely on it. [It does destroy the world when you set the car of a table.] Better version is here:

  (require racket/unsafe/ops)
    
  (define x-set-car!
    (let ((fn (namespace-variable-value 'set-car! #t (lambda () #f))))
      (if (procedure? fn)
          fn
          (lambda (p x)
            (if (pair? p)
                (unsafe-set-mcar! p x)
                (raise-type-error 'set-car! "pair" p))))))
  (define x-set-cdr!
    (let ((fn (namespace-variable-value 'set-cdr! #t (lambda () #f))))
      (if (procedure? fn)
          fn
          (lambda (p x)
            (if (pair? p)
                (unsafe-set-mcdr! p x)
                (raise-type-error 'set-cdr! "pair" p))))))

-----

1 point by waterhouse 2786 days ago | link

Man, I really wish I could continue editing my original post, 'cause without the type-checking, it's kind of a nuclear bomb in case someone accidentally uses it on a table. Perhaps I should just have left the post unchanged, or just added "Edit: Look in the comments for improvements" at the bottom.

-----

4 points by akkartik 2786 days ago | link

I still have the edit link (because I can kill stories). Feel free to email me an updated version (address in profile) and I'll replace it for you.

-----

1 point by waterhouse 2786 days ago | link

Excellent. You've got mail.

-----

1 point by rntz 2860 days ago | link | parent | on: QuickCheck for Arc

rev isn't idempotent, however, rev:rev (rev composed with itself) is, which is I suspect what fallintothis was thinking. "Involutary" (which term I've never run across prior to this) appears to be a term for just this property: that the square is idempotent.

-----

2 points by shader 2860 days ago | link

Involution is more strict than the square being idempotent; it also must be the identity function. I.e. abs^2 is idempotent but abs itself is not involutary, since abs^2(-1) = 1 != -1

-----

5 points by rntz 2869 days ago | link | parent | on: Arc Conference

1. Silicon Valley.

2. Anything.

3. Why pattern matching is way cooler than car/cdr; why arc isn't a 100-year language; comparative study of macro systems; comparative study of module systems; implementation of a bootstrapping arc compiler; implementation of my pet lisp, chao, which is bootstrapped from arc and compiles to a (hopefully) portable IL... I have lots of ideas.

4. Summer break, since that's when I'm in Silicon Valley.

5. If someone wanted to destroy Arc as a language, this would be the time for them to do it. Everyone interested, gathered in one small space. Be on your guard, comrades! :P

-----

1 point by d0m 2865 days ago | link

I mostly agree with 3! It might be a good place to finally take the decision about the module system.. It obviously would be awesome if it could be webcasted. (Montreal, Canada here :p)

-----


Yes, they should, because they can be changed within dynamic scope by 'w/stdout etc, and this doesn't work unless they correspond to parameters in mzscheme, which need to be called to get their current value.

Using your dynvar hack, you could avoid this, but that's hardly "not changing the language", now, is it?

-----

1 point by aw 2869 days ago | link

You are correct on all points: the std ports do need to be parameters, I am using my defvar hack to do that, and this is a change to the language.

-----

2 points by rntz 2871 days ago | link | parent | on: Quoting function values

You can quote anything, literally anything. Why wouldn't you be able to? The only caveat, if you can call it that, is that you can't necessarily 'write out the resulting code sexpr readably (for example, functions are not, as a rule, writable).

The only reason why you need to quote certain things at all is because the arc compiler is very picky about its input -- it cases on the type of the sexpr it's compiling, and if it doesn't recognize the type it throws an error -- but things inside a quotation escape this examination. If this weren't the case, and it instead just passed them through, then functions could be embedded directly instead of quoted; and everything (I think) other than symbols and lists evaluate to themselves in mzscheme.

-----

More